Oakley, Ambrose, Jarmin family
Jane Davey is looking for info on these families:
"My granny was Elizabeth Oakley (1891) and her mum was Eliza Jane Jarmin (1864) , daughter of Jane Jarmin (1845). I can't find any record of Jane's marriage to anyone. Jane's parents were William Jarmin (1792) and Martha Boreham (1802). My great grandad was Henry Oakley (1831) who married Emma Ambrose (1840), but I've come to a halt with Emma's family. Any info would be great.
I'm also interested in a particular christian name that keeps appearing in the census and family info - Mahala. Several of my female ancestors had this name and it's reallly unusual even today - if anyone knows why this name was so popular in Glemsford I'd love to know too!"
As always, if anyone can help, please make your initial contact through me.
SC
"My granny was Elizabeth Oakley (1891) and her mum was Eliza Jane Jarmin (1864) , daughter of Jane Jarmin (1845). I can't find any record of Jane's marriage to anyone. Jane's parents were William Jarmin (1792) and Martha Boreham (1802). My great grandad was Henry Oakley (1831) who married Emma Ambrose (1840), but I've come to a halt with Emma's family. Any info would be great.
I'm also interested in a particular christian name that keeps appearing in the census and family info - Mahala. Several of my female ancestors had this name and it's reallly unusual even today - if anyone knows why this name was so popular in Glemsford I'd love to know too!"
As always, if anyone can help, please make your initial contact through me.
SC
posted by Steve Clarke at 10:26 am
18 Comments:
Hi Jane. I am also interested in the Jarmin family of Glemsford. I have a relative WILLIAM JARMIN b1820, son of JAMES JARMIN b circa1790 and SARAH AMBROSE b circa 1790. James and Sarah were married in Glemsford in 1813. Would appreciate any help, maybe we're trailing the same line.
Regards
Richard
Hello, I only look at this web site a few times per year and noticed the Oakley question and the name Mahala.
I have in the past written to the web site owner SC about the name of Little Egypt, and this may be a place you may have to look to find more about Mahala and the Oakley name. You may never find some records or you may have to look further afield.
Mahala was a popular Gypsy name; even today biblical and old Arabic names are still used by some Gypsy families today. I know of a Noah and an Ambrose Oakley, both currently living on a Gypsy site in Hertfordshire. The current Oakley family are closley related to the Buckley family, a very powerful Suffolk Gypsy family today. I do know that one of the older Buckleys was born on Melford green, she is Aunt to some other Oakleys I know in Suffolk. Gypsies, then, would have children christerned where and when they could, so finding records can be a very difficult task , sometimes impossible . I hope that you may find this Information of some help in your searching. Steve Clarke may also be interested in popular Mahala name within Glemsford(Little Eygpt).
All the best
Rory
Indeed, there were seven Mahalas on the 1901 Census.
I generally agree with Rory's take on the Gypsy/Romany idea, but I would preach a little caution, in that Glemsford also has a strong Non-conformist religious tradition, and Old Testament names are popular among those groups, too.
A discussion of the origins of "Little Egypt", including Rory's very convincing argument, can be found here: http://www.glemsford.org.uk/07littleegypt.html
Hello Steve, I have been thinking a lot about the name Mahala and asked a friend of mine about it.
He is a fountain of knowledge when it come to all things Gypsy, from Ireland to Eastern Europe.
He says it is a Roma (Gypsy) name for a particular style of music and dance still performed in Romania by the Roma.
He knows of Kosova Roma in Ipswich that perform this style of music at festivals.
He recommended listening to a group called Mahala Ria Banda, meaning the Gentleman's Muhala Band.
I also did a Google translation of the word, it came up with " Mahala meaning slum, on the edge, Rookery amongst others" The only translation that worked was Romanian to English, no surprise really.
I then listened to and watched on you tube some Mahala music it, was very good. I have heard it before but never knew it was called Mahala.
Fascinating isn't it. I learned something new today. Thank you.
Rory
Thanks again, Rory. You're absolutely right - it is fascinating.
Wikipedia gives a similar development of the word, Mahala, or, more generally as just a particular area.
Another online source claims the name derives from the Hebrew for "tenderness".
There is a lot more to be done here!
Hi Steve and Rory
Thanks for the info about the name 'Mahala'. The plot is thickening alarmingly - and Rory's comments are fascinating! I'll delve into it some more and have a look at Steve's 'Little Egypt' pages.
Thanks once again - if I get any further I'll post on here.
For Jane,
William JARMIN, bp 5 Oct 1800, (base born son of Margery JARMIN, known as Margaret JARMIN, dau of Thomas JARMAIN & Ann.) married Martha BOREHAM on 25 Dec 1821 at Glemsford.
They had 14 children, of whom Jane was the 13th (final child named Mahala)
Jane was born on 22 Jan 1845.
Jane married George PAWSEY on 5th Oct.1872 at Glemsford.
I have masses more info on Jarmin/Boreham - it is the line I am researching.
Regards
Janet Jarmin
Hi Janet
Thanks for that - I never realised William was illegitimate but that's why I haven't got any further with him probably! I'd love to know more.
I don't know if I can give you my email address here but Steve has it and can pass it on to you.
Jane
I am married into a family with the last name 'Mahala' the family history within my husbands family isn't spoken much of. Supposedly they came to America from Germany some decades ago and had some family members in the concentration camps that held both Rromani as well as Jewish. My husbands great aunt has the concentration camp tattoo.
Jarman/Jarmin/Germyn connection to Davey/Davy in suffolk, gypsies they were said to be.
Hi, I am trying to contact janet jarmin as she states she has info on boreham/jarmin family. My relative is samuel jarmin boreham born about 1800. I thought jarmin middle name could be surname of family who married a boreham. Long shot I know, any info appreciated. nick Boreham nick.bea@tesco.net
Hi, I am trying to contact janet jarmin or anybody who can help. My relative is Samuel Jarmin Boreham born about 1800. I thought jarmin middle name might be because boreham married a jarmin. long shot I know but I can not trace back beyond samuel boreham. any help appreciated Nick Boreham nick.bea@tesco.net
Hi,
Not sure if I am related to your relatives, but I do have quite a number of girls called Mahala Holmes in my family, and they do appear to be Gypsies too. I have only come across this name today, as I have been doing more searching on my Gt Gt Gt Gt Grand mother Maria Morris (1834-1913)Hawker and Marine Storedealer who had a daughter-Sophia Morris=26/2/1877-George James Holmes who appears to have a sister called Mahalah Holmes born 1867-Cambridge and also three Aunts also called Mahala Holmes daughters of brothers; John, George and Richard Holmes. On the 1881 census my Maria Morris is living at 16 Albert street Cambridge and there are also four families of Holmes also living in Albert street, three of whom I have found are related to me. At 20 Albert street there is a caravan in the yard occupied by Alfred Holmes-Hawker born 1850-Norwich, his wife Jane, son Alfred aged three and Margaret Tapsell aged 71 Hawker born-Leamington, Warwick. The Tapsells are a well known Romany family. I am about to order what I think is her death certificate, so the Gypsy link does appear to fit the name.
Found this site very helpful and interesting.
Best wishes,
James Gundersen-McLaughlin
my great grandmothers name was mahala twinn married to henry slater in 1886. finding the family of her is proving to be an impossible task as they were 'travellers' any help would be great!
Hi all,Elizabeth Mary Ann Oakley b.1860 Glemsford,marries Arthur Brown in 1887,she is my Great Aunt.Elizabeth's sister was Adelaide Oakley b 1861 Glemsford who married Harry Brown in 1882 Glemsford making him my Great grandad.Harry's father was John Brown who married Ellen Dowsett,one of their children was Mahala b.1865 d 1941 who married James Jarmin in 1884 Glemsford,hope this helps Neil
Hi all,my Great Aunt was Mahala Brown b.1865 d 1941 child of John Brown and Ellen Dowsett,John being my Great Grandfather.Also my Grandfather Harry Brown married Adelaide Oakley in 1882 in Glemsford they moved to Lavenham in about 1890 and are buried there,hope this helps Neil.
I have a question for Richard who is related to James Jarmin. I am wondering where he got his sources about James being married to Sarah Ambrose. James is my 6th great grandfather and my geneology chart shows that he married a Sarah Desunt. I would love to have your sources as well as any other information that you have about this family.
Alisha Jarmin
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